Jul 17, 2018
In Episode 8, guest host
Zoe Trodd, Director of The Rights Lab at the University of
Nottingham interviews regular Rights Track host Todd Landman about taking a
human rights approach to researching and tackling modern slavery.
They reflect together on why this is important to their programme
of research aiming to end modern slavery and on the important and
insightful conversations that The Rights Track has had about the
work in the Series to date.
00.00 – 05.40
Discussion around quantitative analysis and why it matters in
the field of human rights and anti-slavery research. Todd points
out that there are aspects of lives (attributes) which can be
quantified and that this:
- Adds precision to analysis
- Allows comparison between groups of people at different scales
and across countries
- Allows researchers to explore the relationships between
different attributes or variables leading to generalisations and
predictions
Zoe then asks what this means for the relatively young field of
modern slavery research. Todd agrees the field of modern slavery
research is in its infancy, but points out that so is the use of
quantitative methods in the field of Human Rights.
He points to an early work by Donald
Greer in 1935 which mapped violence during the French
Revolution and the work of Mitchell and McCormack,
World Politics Vol 40 1988 as the first real attempt at
applying quantitative methods to the study of Human Rights. He says
the fields of Human Rights and Modern Slavery share certain
characteristics:
- They study hard to find victims and practices
- They use the same models
- They share the same sources of data
Note: the study of hard to find populations and practices has
the potential for measurement error which requires caution when
dealing with the data and analysing the results.
05.25 – 11.20
Zoe points out that the field of human rights dates back to the
18thcentury and the work of the anti-slavery abolitionists and yet
there is very little co-ordination between different groups working
in the field of modern slavery. She wonders what Todd’s thoughts
are on a human rights approach to modern slavery:
- For governments and NGO’s, who concentrate on a criminal
justice approach
- International labour organisations who focus on modern slavery
as a labour rights issue
- Now human rights has been seen as a development issue (see
SDG 8 plus table)
Todd sees the study of modern slavery evolving in a similar way
to human rights:
- Developing precise definitions and measurements of modern
slavery
- Human Rights work on obligations of the state to protect rights
could be applied to the prevention and detection of modern
slavery
- Will need to move away from the narrow focus on civil rights
violations and to look at what governments can do to create the
socio-economic conditions to stop people falling in to modern
slavery
- It needs to move away from a law-based focus and to engage with
other disciplines for example, statistics, to see what they can add
to understanding
- Techniques that have been developed in the field of human
rights can also be applied to modern slavery; for example; “the who
did what to whom” model, and multiple systems estimations
- Combining rigorous research with advocacy requires researchers
to remain as objective as possible – this can be a challenge when
you are also looking to change something e.g. abolish slavery
11.20 – 15.50
Discussion around defining what modern slavery really means.
Todd says:
- As with other aspects of human rights such as torture,
definitions are contested – mentions the Handbook
on Reporting Torture
- Definitions of modern slavery should be neither too narrow nor
too broad
- We live in a world where traditional indicators property,
control, and coercion are not as obvious
Todd suggests modern slavery is the intentional denial of
“agency” or freedom, and the task is to identify what the
intentional denial of agency involves.
15.50 – 21.10
Slavery as a development issue. Todd points out that
historically slavery provided an exploitable work force and was a
tool for economic development. He adds:
- Slaves are a cheap form of labour, but he argues that this can
be a drag on economic and social development because labour is not
used efficiently, modern slaves are not wage earners or tax
payers
- Liberation on its own is not enough - there needs to be strong
financial support mechanisms otherwise people may fall back into
slavery
21.10 – 27.50
Todd’s thoughts on The Rights
Lab - measuring progress on HOW their 4 main questions
might be answered.
- How many slaves are there in the world?
This needs to involve use of:
- Why does slavery persist? Todd suggests three
approaches/questions:
- What are the economic conditions which cause people to fall
into slavery?
- What are the structural and institutional conditions, which
allow people to fall into slavery?
- What are the cultural circumstances, which lead to forms of
slavery becoming normalised?
- What approaches to tackling slavery work?
- Map how many NGOs are working in this field and find out what
they are doing
- Look at the success or otherwise of individual projects and
understand why they were successful and importantly why they were
not
- Compare different interventions and contexts to understand why
they worked
- What is the freedom dividend?
- Need to acknowledge there may not be one
- Identifying and measuring what constitutes a freedom dividend
is very difficult
- The link between liberation and a dividend will be difficult to
prove
Zoe mentions the business case for removing slavery from supply
chains as a possible dividend in this respect
27.50 - end
Todd is asked to reflect on his highlights of the first year of
The Rights Lab. They include:
- The passion of the researchers and the contributors to the
Rights
Track podcast
- The innovative ways of generating and analysing data
- The Geospatial work, which has revolutionised data collection.
All human activity leaves a trace including slavery, and using
geospatial analysis potential slavery activities have been
identified enabling NGOs to be alerted and slaves to be
liberated.
Todd finishes by talking about what next for The Rights Track
including planned discussions with stakeholders and beneficiaries
of the research and ideas to take the podcast on the road to talk
to non academic groups involved in the struggle to end modern
slavery.
Further links and resources